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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

"Open borders" means betraying all citizens of America today, to endless imflow of illegal aliens.

Hard to believe a rational counterparty would push that.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

You should've read the article before commenting, there is no 'endless inflow' which I explained. There is no 'betrayal' of citizens; immigrants are the foundation of our society.

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

Vincent. I read the article. Opinions to which you are entitled. But no facts to substantiate those opinions.

Nothing we say here will change the fact that Kamala is a disaster. In 48 days, the election will begin the American Restoration.

Separately, you support a state-run economy. If you have your way, how would supply meet demand without price signals from a free market?

Communism has never, ever, worked in any national economy. No one can provide a single case.

Communism is right for the family; parents give everything for their kids.

At the village level, socialism is we trade off efficiency for kindness.

We patronize the local blacksmith even though he's not very good, because we've known him since grade school, and the horseshoes are tolerable. Meanwhile guilt keeps lazy folks from being too exploitive, so it all works adequately.

But in the Big City, there are too many goods and services, too many transactions, for personal acquaintance and long-term relationships to keep things moving. Only free market price matches buyers and sellers.

Describe your views, and the long history of failures.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

You say I have 'no facts' to substantiate my opinions but don't even dispute anything about it? I'm not going to keep explaining history and political science to you regarding communism when it has nothing to do with the article.

You clearly have not read into communism at all, you conflate communism and socialism when they are very much not the same. You also say I support a state-run economy, I never claimed to or even alluded to it. But to answer the question anyway, in command economies either capitalist or socialist, the supply is controlled by the state meaning that market forces don't apply, that's kind of the central idea lol. The state (or democratic governing body) can allocate resources how it wants. A state-run system is inherently more efficient- the same way a monopoly is more efficient within a market economy, competition causes massive wastes in productivity. But different from a market monopoly, a state-run system also can allocate resources toward development whereas a monopoly doesn't have an incentive to innovate or develop new technologies.

You describe Kamala Harris, (a centrist liberal) as socialist which proves how unserious you are in making an honest argument. Then you're talking about 'socialism' at the 'village level' but not in 'a big city' whatever that is supposed to mean— laughably imprecise. Communism has never been fully realized on a national scale meaning it has never succeeded or failed, you would know that if you studied the topic.

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

The important bit is how information flows at difference scales of society.

And that's important to match human motivations.

Family motivation is devotion to offspring. Evolution too care of that long ago.

Village motivation is to comity and welfare of the group. Tolerance of the weak, with discipline of the lazy.

In the anonymous big city, it's clear that only price signals are efficient enough to match supply to demand. The city needs explicit welfare, as one of govt. jobs, for a humane society.

The impact for our conversation is that "some" redistribution cannot be "total" redistribution.

And that, my good host, is what you must address.

How much of the economy should govt. take?

I say no more than a third, all in, all forms direct and indirect.

Though you do respond, you have NEVER tried to explain why every large society (not family or village) has failed under communism. Every single time from USSR to Venezuela.

PS: Harris explicitly claims "corp. greed" is raising food prices. That's entirely wrong. It's greedy govt. that overprints money. And cheapening the currency drives inflation. Biden's trillions of "stimulus" is toxic.

When govt. is too big, it's unavoidably corrupt, and creates a few corrupt cronies to collude.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

Dude, if you want to argue about communism go to r/communism this has nothing to do with the article.

I'm not going to humor your bizarre family-village-city theory, it doesn't sound like its grounded in sociology or any science, it sounds like something Jordan Peterson made up. Can you cite where you got it from so I can look into it?

What does the size of a community have anything to do with how it its run? Spoiler: nothing. If within a village one person held all of the wealth and was a king that would inherently be exploitative, the same way it is in our current global capitalist world. It seems like you're saying socialized works in principle if it's in a village but not a city or country? Right? In an extremely overly simple sense; communism wants to treat the world like a COMMUNity, we all give what we can and take what we need. It also includes the important distinction proven by science that humans are not inherently lazy, weak or greedy, those are conditions imposed by hierarchy(aka capitalism).

How much should the government take? You arbitrarily decide it's 1/3... why? Weren't you a free market libertarian in the last post comments? But communism is an idea beyond our current form of government so it comes with the caveat that workers (aka the people) have FULL democratic control over their means of production and then I can say the 'government' would have 100% control over commerce. Please read Marx, its not worth typing out when these concepts are already written out in books.

Ok this communism never worked thing is actually the easiest explanation, ready... because every single socialist government has been brutally repressed, sanctioned, forced into unpayable debt, exploited, couped, invaded or imperialized by the United States and the West. Simple answer- because the United States doesn't let them exist. It happened literally this year- Venezuela elects a socialist leader and the US says the election was rigged, tries to assassinate him and puts sanctions on the country. Mexico's socialist government passes a bill to literally allow its citizens to vote for judges democratically and American media says it's "corruption". Cuba has been very successful in spite of the harshest and longest sanction regime maybe in history. The USSR was literally kicking America's ass despite having far less access to resources, people, wealth and land for half a century. Why do you think Americans have been so brainwashed into hating communism? It certainly wasn't because the USSR was weak. Rojava is a great example of a successful modern socialist style government which is non-heirarchical and decentralized.

I don't really care about Harris- as a leftist, I don't like her. But in the sense that corporate greed is raising food prices she is correct, obviously. None of the material conditions changed for food producers to make food more expensive besides inflation. Where does inflation come from, its a measure of the average price of goods- what causes those prices to go up? Consumer spending but more specifically- corporations raising prices. You could say that corporations might have to pay more to produce the goods but we know thats not true- corporations made record profits and CEOs took home record salaries during the 2020 and 2021. If you think 'greedy' government is the problem- who did exploded the national debt after promising to pay it off in 8 years? It was Trump. His tax cuts destroyed it and by deregulating it opened up a massive opportunity for corporations to raise prices and destroy the US dollar: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/14/trump-legacy-national-debt-increasee/

AND WHO SIGNED THE CARES ACT? $2.2 TRILLION DOLLARS?

Or is it okay when Trump does it?

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

Finally answer why communism always fails. "It's never been tried."

Then strike back back with your version of "whataboutism..."

America can afford a trillion dollar misstep, just the size of the whole Russian economy, and that only from pumping away its energy reserves, once.

Still, you've been an honest host and I appreciate that. Fare thee well,

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N. Walker's avatar

"immigrants are the foundation of our society"

Immigrants maybe, but not ILLEGAL immigrants

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

We should deport American born criminals since there are far more of them

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Philip Kellogg's avatar

Are you even a citizen you sound like some idiot that hates America.

We have customs we have values we have a culture in America that we would like to preserve I'm sure you have no idea what I'm speaking about.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

You don't care about culture, thats your dogwhistle for wanting the country to be as white as possible

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Apathy Miller's avatar

YES! There should be borders! We still have 3rd world countries & countries that hate America. There should be a limit of how many immigrants that can come into America each quarter/year legally. Yes we should have a better immigration policy! But you can't just let anyone come in. They should have a career that benefits America, and if they're unskilled labor there should be a limit on how many unskilled workers we let in...

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

Why would they come to America if they hate America? That makes no sense.

There is no reason you can't let everyone in? Immigrants have lower crime rates and higher employment rates than citizens, I explain this in the article. In Springfield they have revitalized a declining city for example and the majority of those immigrants were of higher social status at home but are not able to have their medical licenses and certifications transferred to the US. I explained that Americas do not desire certain industry jobs that immigrants tend to take, the idea that immigrants 'take' unskilled labor jobs from citizens is a fallacy.

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

Why would haters come? Easy. To enjoy our riches, while exploiting sympathetic bureaucrats to change America for the worst. Tax the productive, impose Kamala's socialist program, and increase government redistribution even more.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

The article explains exactly the opposite– immigrants who you say "hate America" are employed at a higher rate than natural born citizens and what riches are they enjoying? Unemployment benefits that leave you below the poverty line? Oh wait you can't qualify for benefits if you aren't a citizen.

Again, Kamala Harris is not a socialist you are laughably ignorant to what that even means.

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Love MyLand's avatar

You soak up the CNN talking points well. None of those points are accuraqte, however.

Good little sheep, keep trying to sound intelligent because you failed with this post.

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Rhonda's avatar

🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️ do you remember 9/11 ?

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Adnan's avatar

I am from a third world country, lot of people from my country live in America even though they hate almost everything about America, like for them all women are sluts because they dont cover up, people drink alcohol so that makes them degenerates, they hate black people, literally openly abuse them, they hardly integrate, some even think voting is against their faith, only reason they are in america is to make more money and a stronger passport, our passport sucks, we need visas almost everywhere, Americans have no idea how easy and privileged they are, luckily some of their kids are different but again they are called coconut by their own community, so again there is no point championing immigrants in all occasions

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bizworld's avatar

Exactly

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Daniel Aloi's avatar

establiishing a meritocracy would disqualify many Americans here already.

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Love MyLand's avatar

Not a disdain for immigrants, a disdain for illegal immigants who hate America and come here to take our largesse and laugh as they rape, pillage, and murder our citizens.

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

I explain in the article that your narrative is completely false and contradicts with easily accessible statistics. Undocumented immigrants commit crimes at almost half the rate of natural born citizens. If you deny this very basic fact, you are giving into irrational and racist fear mongering that both parties are enabling. Either you didn't read the article or you're willfully ignoring the facts I lay out.

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Rogue's avatar

Another delusional dumb-a-coward trying to profit off peoples fear and ignorance. Post something "controversial" on X and people will flock to your site to set you straight. Along the way you may get some delusional people to subscribe and maybe you can extort some money out of them. Sadly, not new or surprising.

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James's avatar

Great points when do you leave to go to these country’s to help them at there homes. What is your level of dedication. To make these changes you wish to make in there lives. How will you fix there problems at the root and not tell others to fix it. I am open to what your talking about but what actions will you take to fix it at there home country, what are you willing to sacrifice to fix this for them. Tell me how you have turned your convictions to action. No just words. Change requires a plan with purpose and a conviction to fallow through. It’s easy to run from problems it’s hard to stay and make change. Let’s talk plans and actions. Then live them my friend

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

The article is about dispelling immigration myths, not mutual aid, not really sure what you're talking about here. Are you trying to ask what can the country do to support foreign nations?

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Sathington Willoughby's avatar

This aged well.

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Leslie Benjamini #🟦's avatar

I see you have no answer for my last comment.

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Philip Kellogg's avatar

This sure is a lot of misinformation

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

Weird because the statistics are right there in the article

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James Smyth's avatar

This is verry diffikult to read.

Mutsh is revealed of th author, rather than th fokused subjekt. What ever plase this prosedes from, it is not reality nor intelligense. Fear? This piese smakks of sutsh a korner. Where is an unbiased, logikal, loved heart to go when pursued by th ravening krows of hatred? Shame on th pen for bleeding out ink whilst squeezed by this hand...

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Vincent Pagliaccio's avatar

Is your c key broken, big guy?

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richard cunningham's avatar

Nonsense

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